Bob Odenkirk: Morally ambiguous characters seek me out!

Do you seek out roles of morally ambiguous characters or do they or the show creators seek you out?

Another great question. I think the answer is they seek me out! For a lot of reasons I don’t have a tonne of scripts crossing my desk that I have to take apart and study. I have a management team and my agent who look at those things but I really think you’re right that I’ve got some kind of corner on the market of duplicitous characters who are in some way earnest.

From a recent interview – you said ‘all people are sad clowns. That’s the key to comedy’. Just how important and possible is it to remain optimistic about the world today?

Yes, on a personal level, speaking only for myself. I am not optimistic and I find it very hard to be optimistic, so I’m not optimistic about the world today. Sorry.

Who’s more difficult to play? Saul or Jimmy?

I guess on a scale of difficult, Jimmy would be more difficult; Jimmy is more rewarding to play though. There’s just more going on with Jimmy. He is constantly examining his own choices, except in the instances where he’s carried away with a scheme. Both Saul and Jimmy, share one particular quality that’s fun, which is that it’s the same person, obviously, but they both get carried away in a very positive, upbeat way with their schemes to try and save themselves. But outside of that Saul is an easier character to play; he doesn’t have as many sides to him.

Gus and Mike are back in Season 3 What are the other characters from Breaking Bad and TV that you want to see again? What is your ultimate wish for Saul, Jimmy and Jeanne?

I’ll answer your question a couple of ways. One, I would like to see Jesse come back into our show from Breaking Bad. I would love to see Hank come back, because Hank knew Saul when they met in the hallway. They had some run-ins before so I would love to see those two characters in some capacity come back, I hope that happens. From TV my favourite characters are Ricky Gervais in The Office and he has brought that character back so I got to enjoy that. I don’t have any other characters from TV though. I would dream that, as a fan, and as the person that gets to play this character that there is fifth incarnation of Jimmy, I would like there to be a fifth person who, after he is able to come out of hiding reconstitutes his life with some growth based on the experience of Breaking Bad and what happens to him. I think that his dream is, as Saul is, to keep at arm’s length from the crime but to benefit financially from it. I think he learns the lesson that there’s no such thing as getting away clean. It’s interesting to apply his scheming talent and ability to navigate logic and legal issues. It would be great it if he could apply that in a way that is not in service of crime, but I don’t know if they’ll give him that.


Do you think that villains are the new heroes of TV? Do you feel there’s an untoward fascination among viewers for anti-hero characters?

Yes. Absolutely I think it’s clear, nearly every show is focused on an antihero and some of us are very archly drawn, almost comical in their antihero stature or in the character‘s creation. Clearly people are fascinated by antiheroes right now. Also I would say that this long form of TV storytelling lends itself to taking time and discovering a character and discovering new sides. So, it’s been said it’s a golden age for TV and I do believe that’s true. All these things are conspiring to make it the best venue for a deeper discovery of character then we’ve ever had, in feature films or in television.

You said a lot of the bad guys on screen now are quite comical in a way. Could you name a few actors that really crack you up?

I probably don’t watch as much TV as I should. Pretty much everybody in The Sopranos makes me laugh. I probably like the characters around Tony Soprano more than Tony – he wasn’t as funny, he was kind of sad. I don’t know other shows well enough to answer this. You know mostly I watch comedies. My favourite comedies right now are a TV show called Basket. Do you have that show? I find that very funny and a TV show called The Last Man On Earth and a TV show called Catastrophe. Those are my favourite shows, and they’re all comedies.

Being a comedian yourself, are you in touch with the stand-up comedy scene? Have you seen the latest Louis CK special?

I loved the Louis CK show, it’s a great show and it’s a wonderful personal expression, it’s hilarious and smart. Somehow Louis is able to be angry on screen in a way that people can accept and say some very personal, troubling things and make you laugh. He makes it very entertaining; I mean it really was a cutting edge show and still remains so. I don’t think anything has really surpassed it. Although I think Catastrophe is very strong in its own way right now. I did stand-up but I wasn’t a stand-up comic if that was your question? I know Louis from writing, we worked together on the Dayna Carvey show and I’ve known him a long time and of course he’s a very strong, professional stand-up. I have only done stand-up in the way that any comedy writer will happily take a page and read off his latest jokes and hope that they get a laugh.

As you have played Saul for so long, if you were in legal trouble, would you try and represent yourself knowing so many tricks of the trade through your work?

No, no, no, no. I would never do that! I think you have to have a real lawyer. The first thing I would do is get a real lawyer. With that in mind, one of the things I have learned is that our legal system in America is designed to try and put a lot of pressure on people to settle their disagreements out of court. So, even when you take on a lawyer there’s a lot of pressure, almost more pressure the deeper you go into it, to try and manage things in a personal way, arbitrating outside of court. I think I’ve learned that one fundamental thing about our legal system. It’s an interesting thing. It doesn’t mean you don’t go to court, it just means with the court date looming, very often people seem to work their stuff out, backstage as it were.

If you needed a lawyer who would that lawyer be? Saul or Jimmy?

Oh Jimmy! Saul is very clear that he is in it for himself that he is using people. He has made a conscious choice to be a mercenary in the law. I think at least with Jimmy there is some semblance of ethics and genuine interest in serving the client first; trying to help people or to use his law skills in a beneficial way for the client whereas Saul is purely about his own self-aggrandisement.

Watch the third season of Better Call Saul on Colors Infinity channel